Theological Debate |
Not everyone agrees to the interpretation of the Church canon. Not everybody shares the same approach towards heathens and sinners. This page holds the uncesored written result (and evidence) of the heroes theological debate and oral combat. May the Pancreator have mercy on their poor souls when/if these words reach the all-hearing Inquisition. Newest letter at the top..... |
My friend Marcellus Juandastas, Many times before have I enjoyed discussing the fabrics of faith with you. You have been a beacon of education in a dark sea of ignorance. Although you have been an incarnate with a weak faith, you have forced me to brush my arguments at many times. You have also on more than one occasion pointed out my deviation from my own moral standards, and for that I am grateful to you. But this last letter to me is simply a great disappointment. It is full of straw-man arguments, hollow misconceptions and outright stupidity. I fear that our rendez-vous with these mislead sathraists have gone to your head. You have lost the little faith you had, and you need an accomplice to redeem yourself. You will not find that in me. My faith is as strong as ever, and I have never deviated from the side of the Pancreator or the Prophet. Nor will I, and you should come to terms with that. Right from the very start of my spiritual journey that begun many years ago, I knew that the creation contained far more mysteries and truths than could be read from the Omega Gospels alone. I knew that the Orthodox church had manipulated some texts and destroyed (or at least tried to destroy) others. They had twisted some of the prophets words to suit their own zealous needs, rather than what was in the interest of mankind. But worst of all, the concept of an upcoming war in heaven – a final battle between the minions of dark and light – The Escaton, was eradicated from their theology, and the future of the universe was blamed on people’s sins alone. That is why they, for so many years, persecuted people of my sect. The existence of a universal network within the gate system, is another such truth that the orthodoxy has hidden away from us. Not only for the common people, but also from learned men who will need this knowledge when the time come. In a way, I can understand their decision. Travelling in Sathra space is something one should not undertake easily. Playing with the Sathra effect is something I still consider one should abstain from altogether. Not only does it create abominations like Belijah Black, the pirate, but it also it seems to twist the mind of people’s faith to the point where they start worshipping the Sathra phenomenon itself and turn their inner flames away from the omnipotent creating force we call the Pancreator, and his prophet. I still consider this heresy, and I do not share their views, but I think they should be convinced by arguments instead of genocide. There are in fact two reasons why I choose to help these people out and save them from the clutches of Brother Battle’s zealots and their allied Hawkwood. And it is not because I have become one of them in spirit. Firstly, however bizarre it may seem, we may very well need these people in the time to come. Their skills and their knowledge may prove vital in the upcoming conflict. What the orthodoxy have thrown down the bin, have been preserved among them, even if most of them carry heretical views in matters of faith. Eradicate them now, and we may well loose one of the best weapon of defense we have, and as a consequence the universe will plunge into an everlasting darkness. Secondly, I cannot support the genocide of millions of people, women and children among them. My soul would be forever lost if I didn’t help them survive when it was in my power to do so. Murderous crusades is NOT what the prophet and his apostles taught us. It is against the very core of his teachings and the Pancreator’s plan for the sentient beings he wove into existence. Even if these people are misguided and heretical to a great extent, it is up to us believers to show them the true way and convince them. Not to kill them en masse, or convert them at flame gun point. For just like among the Vuldrok barbarians, there are many people among them who are inherently good and moral. In a better universe we would just let them see the truth of our (untwisted) teachings, and in the end they would. I am sure you and I agree upon this moral issue. In matters of belief, these sathraists promote a view that I cannot accept under any circumstances. Even though many of them worship the Pancreator and follow the words of our Prophet, they are in their basic theological assumption completely heretical. They tell me that above all religions is Sathra. It is this mystical concept that in turn create religions. The power of Sathra is what makes the Pancreator real to his followers. This is of course complete and utter nonsense. The Pancreator is the all-being that created the universe. Satari, the Weft, Sathra space or whatever you call it, is naturally his creation, or maybe the creation of his children, the gate builders. Their sometimes foolish usage of the Sathra effect twists their mind. They turn the tables upside down and worship creation instead of creator. They are in fact idolaters, and you have become one too, Marcellus. This will never be my standpoint. I remain loyal to my faith, in spite of the fact that I now admit to the existence and importance of Satari, that will be one battleground in the conflict to come. It may in fact be just as important as the real universe, and a key gathering point of intelligence of our enemies movements. I also remain loyal to the tenents of the Eskatonic Order, although I believe they will have no more to do with me after the current events. I understand now why so many eskatonics have been accused of sathraism (probably falsely) throughout history. They have likely seen what I have seen, and understood what I now understand. It does not mean that they have wavered in their faith. I hope that my order wakes up and realizes this, but I have no sincere hope it will happen. I am most likely on my own now, as are many of us. Your sorry accusations of me being “in denial”, Marcellus, has a hollow sound to it. What it comes down to, is that I remain strong in my faith and you do not. Whenever you need absolution for your misguided path, I will be there for you. Pax Vobiscum, Venlinni Simon Ven Lahjal Dear Simon! Marcellus God afton kära kamrat Min uppfattning angående ämnet Wyrd och förmågan att tappa energin eller kraften överensstämmer med din uppfattning. Jag tror att människan är för klent utrustad för att förstå hur det fungerar. Om vi hade visat en tredimensionell figur för en tvådimensionell varelse så hade de haft svårigheter att förklara vad det var de såg. På samma sätt ser du och jag på kraften, som två dimensionella varelser, vi har likheter i hur vi berör och använder Wyrd medan broder Simon har en föreställning om att det är en allena rådande varelse som styr hur han kan beröra och använda denna energi. Över oss, människan, finns det varelser som har en djupare insikt. De ser hela den tredimensionella figuren. De kan använda Wyrd på ett mer rättframt sätt. Egentligen tror jag bara att vi liknar barn som på olika sätt försöker stoppa handen i kakburken. Medan Simon står på tå eller hoppar så klättrar vi upp på en pall för att nå kakburken men vi är fortfarande barn. Det konstiga är att vi lyckas nå kakorna. De smakar tillockmed gott. När vi använder Wyrd är de precis som elektricitet. Det finns folk som inte tror på elektricitet men ändå skadas de eller bedövas om man skruvar upp en el-bedövare (electrical stunner) lite grann. Du behöver inte tro på ett allena rådande kärnkraftverk för att se att lampan tänds när du trycker på knappen men du måste förstå hur en energicell fungerar för att kunna använda den. Vi människor har inte nått till den yttersta nivån. Det finns vissa av oss som kommit längre än andra och har större krafter. Men med noggranna studier av hur andra varelser använder och har använt wyrd tror jag att vi kan komma längre i vår evolution. Tyvärr vet jag inte om vi hinner innan solarna slocknar eller himlen trillar ner! Ovanstående påstående motsäger inte existensen av Pancreator men jag misstänker att han inte är en inbilsk, småsint varelse som dömer oss efter samma måttstock som vi själva gör. Jag tror inte att han dömer oss efter hur vi tror på honom i heller. Mot nya solar och äventyr /The Baron Regarding wyrd tabernacles Regarded companions! ( This includes those prone to Symbiot infestation. ) As a straight-forward beginning of our obviously longed for debate I dare state that the activation or use of such objects, or in fact all wyrd, is specifically linked to subconscious processes going on in the mind of the person using wyrd or wyrd tabernacles. Most likely all people have the abilities to observe and use wyrd lying dormant within them selves but it is only a few privileged that due to their psychic skills or religious teachings are able to tap into that power source. Since people in common have not evolved in this way and have no recognition of their own aptitude they therefore simply cannot use it and hence remain oblivious but also probably happier for it. Naturally this leads to the conclusion that it is all down to the intricate process of removing mental blocks or obstacles from the mind that provides the ability to use wyrd in any such way although the roads leading to that kind of awareness may vary greatly. Some clear themselves a path via theology while others rely on the human psyche to reach the same goal This in turn means that conviction, religious or otherwise, is the key thing to understanding and benefiting from a wyrd source and when found wanting in faith or psyche, you simply are cut off from the wyrd no matter how great your coherent skill. When making a different approach and examining the true meaning of the word “tabernacle”, it has a very clear tie to religion and religious rites while meaning “place of dwelling” or “place of divine dwelling”. In early pre-Diaspora scriptures dating back to ancient Urth, it can be read that the ancient hedonistic sect of the Hebrews used such items when travelling, in order to bring with them a focus for their false worship. This indicates that a tabernacle is something created by and for people with religious motives and it feels safe to say that if you are lacking religious belief or education, you can not use it. As a short summary of the above I solemnly and slightly heretically claim that the ability to use wyrd vary between people in general following an escalating graph of mental/spiritual awareness and education. When not having the belief or knowledge needed to activate or access an artefact and thus being blocked, it is simply impossible to do so. Sincerely and curiously, Marcellus Wavering Brother! These your bothersome questions are understandingly most inconvenient and hard for you to cope with since this is only the mere beginning of your journey and a long and encumbering way still lies ahead of you. I mean not the journey to the ether of Sathra Space but the greatest journey of them all; the journey to insight and awareness. My fellow brother and friend Marcellus, It is with great pain and hesitation in my heart, that I again turn to you. I am in dire need of confession and absolution for the sins I am about to commit. I know very well that you are not an ordained priest of any church. However, under the present circumstances I find no one else to turn to. Any priest would only dub me a heretic for even considering the course of action I am about to embark on. Under the present circumstances, it feels more or less pointless to continue our ongoing theological debate. For I know not any longer where I stand myself. It is not that I am losing my religion, but many things that I held for absolute truths, are beginning to crumble in my consciousness. As you well know, the last few months of events have brought both you and me in league with sathraist heretics. But so far I have remained true to my faith in my heart. I have not in any way engaged in any illegal rituals or swayed from the side of the Pancreator. I have considered these sathraists vain fools that tamper with powers beyond their understanding, but neither have I reported them to any inquisitorial synod, as would be my duty as a priest of the order. Fools they may be, but they seem not to me as evil men that deserve to be put through torture and death under the inquisition. Well, that abomination who calls himself Belijah Black would certainly deserve it, but that is besides the point. But now when I find myself at the end of the trail, things are different. I stand before the decision to either abandon the quest or proceed and be damned forever in the eyes of the church. There is no longer any doubt that my father engaged in sathraist rituals and entered what they call “sathraspace”. I know that now. The quest to clear his name is over and lost. I can either follow his example or remain loyal to my faith. So why would I sway from my church and my order and actually follow the trail to its end? Am I just following my lesser instincts in a quest for knowledge. Nam et ipsa scientia potestas es, as the old saying goes. I admit that the scriptures from the Stellar Apcryphon that are rumored to exist in the temple, is tempting to find. But if it were only for that I would not commit heresy. Am I just following my father’s trail no matter the consequences to my inner flame? No, that is not so either. I could just as well turn back now that I know that the accusations against him were not false. NO! The reason I intend to proceed on this path is that I believe it is the right course of action. The events that played out during my travels in barbarian space have in many ways changed the way I perceive the universe. The encounter with the slave warrior of the shadow court, who called his race Anukai, and his task for us to warn the Vau, proved to me once and for all that the Eskaton is soon upon us. The same with my encounter with a true angel of the Empyrean, and many other mysteries that happened outside the reach of the orthodoxy. I know that the War in Heaven is real and will soon be upon us. It is my belief that the war cannot be won unless we use all allies we have and all battlegrounds at our disposal. One of these important battlegrounds may very well be what the heretics call sathraspace. Maybe these heretics too have their part to play. What should not be meddled with, may have to be meddled with for us to avoid the darkness conquering the universe. If it is my doom to commit heresy to aid in a greater cause, then so be it. It is a sacrifice I will have to make. My humble soul is a cheap price to save the universe and the light of the celestial sun. I only hope that I am not lured into a trap of vile sathraists, whose only goal is to get some secret from me. That is my worst fear. However, the Pancreator gave me a vision that was more than clear. I should proceed and follow the path to its end. But no matter if my course of action is just or not, the rest of the Known Worlds will deem me (and the rest of us) sinners and heretics. No matter if I follow the Pancreators path, we will all probably be burned at the stake as heretics. An nescis, mi fili, quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? I feel a like the prophet of the old cross worshippers of the first republic, Jesus of Nazareth, when he walked through Getsemane that last day before his judgement and crucifixion. Please Marcellus. You may not be the one to grant me absolution, but at least tell me that you support me as a friend and follower. I feel lonelier than ever. With hope and prayers, Simon Ven Lahjal Dear Simon, Honoured Simon, My revered friend Marcellus, I wholeheartedly agree that our discussions are a beacon of light in the company of children. In a context where most discussions form around questions like ”where can I buy a really cool gun”, our theological debates form a very welcome discourse. Having said that, I still disagree with you. Sometimes I even fear for the salvation of your soul. On your first issue. Let me first explain to you the different schools within the church of the celestial sun. First we have the Hinayana school of the Orthodoxy. They maintain that salvation is only possible through the universal church and through no other means, and true faith is restricted to humans. Even this way, most common people will not find their way to the Empyrean. Salvation is a privilige for a select few. Then we have the Mahayana. Their beleif is that all can achieve salvation but guidance is needed. Only those that actively deny the truth will be damned. The Eskatonics are close to the Mahayana, but with a small distinction. We admit that salvation is possible without guidance of the church, but these few examples make the exception. They are not the norm. If the church where not there to guide the masses, millions of inner flames would burn out before their time had come to face their judgement. This is the central difference between Eskatonics and Incarnates. We do not deny elitism. Surely there are some people with a unique inner flame and an innate wisdom, strong enough to find salvation on their own, but to think that the common serf would be able to acheive a goal of that kind, is preposterous. Your reasoning sometimes remind me of the diaspora movement called socialism. They too believed in a utopian idea that all were born equal with the same prerequisites. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Some are born with a stronger faith and with a more vital inner flame than others. These are the facts and denying it leads nowhere. It is up to us with this gift to take the burden of guiding the less fortunate. It is both a blessing and a curse. Utopianism is the single most contributing factor to suffering and death in the history of the known Universe. Let us not tread that path. And this leads me to your second question, the issue of free will. All branches of the Universal Church accept the importance of free will. We only disagree on how to counteract those who use their free will to deny the faith. A central tenent to all but the Hinayana (including the fundamentalist Avestites) are these two concepts: infidelitas secundum negationem puram (Infidelity by pure negation), which is not a mortal sin and infidelitas secundum contrarietatem ad fidem (Infidelity by actively opposing the faith), which IS a mortal sin. The meaning of these concepts is that according to the non-Hinayana branches, a man who has never been properly informed about the teachings of the prophet and commits good deeds, can still acheive enlightenment. A Vuldrok barbarian is judged by his deeds and not by his piety towards the church, since he has no choice in that matter. But a man that has heard the teachings of Zebulon the Omega and actively denies them, is surely damned to burn in the Klippoth for eternity. Further, we differ on how to treat heretics. Mahayana mean that as long as heresy is not practised evil (like true antinomists), it is up to their free will to condemn their own souls, a position supported by the Eskatonics. The Hinayanas standpoint is that heresy in all forms taint the flames of others and should be uprooted, but still it is their free will to commit heresy (however it can be considered free will to choose between death by burning at the stake and following the true faith). On your last issue, what Zebulon himself said on the matter, I simply don't think that you are being intellectually honest. Firstly, you are quoting an apocryphical text. But what is worse, you are quoting it out of context. The Acts of the Prophet is not a canonical text in the eyes of the Universal Church, but even then, this is not the full contents of what he was saying. In Acts 14:6 (five verses after your quote) he is saying "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one sees the light of the Pancreator except through Me.". This is clearly a reference stating that people should follow the Prophet's representatives in this universe, the Universal Church of the Celestial Flame. There are numerous texts in the canon that support this standpoint. Yours truly, Simon Ven Lahjal Phew! True HERESY spoken by a true and devoted heretic. Kind regards /Brother Infurie Coal Temple Avesti Esteemed Simon, Honored Brother, Dear Brother Marcellus, When it comes to worldly legal matters I do not doubt your skill and your understanding, but let me humbly advise you that in terms of judgement of the soul, I am the more qualified of the two of us. Firstly you must understand that there is only one undisputed court of law, and that is the Empyrian court we shall all face at the day of our judgement. Orthodox inquisitional courts are only proxies, set up to safeguard the souls of the rest of the flock from antinomist influence. But they are only human, prone to corruption, ill ljudgement and even heresy themselves. In the year of our prophet 4852, sir Alessandro de Hazat was tried and convicted as a heretic in an inquisitional court on Hira. He was burned at the stake, all while claiming his innocense. Ten years later, the orthodox prosecutor, a young priest by the name of Quintus Kaleido, was found to be a practicing antinomist himself, and put to the flame. Alessandro's case was reopened, he was found innocent and his name was cleared in the eyes of the living (his inner flame was of course untarnished before the empyrean all the time). Although these cases are of course extremely rare, they still prove that courts of the inquisition are not without flaw. Incomplete information can cloud the judgement of even the wisest of ecclesiastics. I will seek out all the facts of the clouded case of my father. There is no doubt in my mind that my findings will prove once and for all that he was not a true heretic. However, should my findings conclude with those of the inquisitional court, I will accept that as well. My prayers to you, Simon Ven Lajhal Revered Brother Simon! Don't believe the false rumors that my father was a heretic. It was no doubt the doings of an overzealous inquisition that got him convicted of heresy. He was innocent and I intend to prove it! /Simon
So… you two have already found out that we live in a lie?! /Vlad Revered Eskatonic Brother, Dear Brother, The taint of darkness comes in many shapes and from many sources. These strange star systems, far away from them we call home, is indeed a test of your soul's strength. But I feel that you judge these people too hard. Yes, the Vuldrok are heretics and they are heretics who are especially intolerant against the faithful. But still, can we blame them? Have we "zebulonites" ever given them reason not to fear our submissive ways? Give the Avestites a chance and they will kill them all, without remorse and without ever giving them time to reconsider. There are times when I think that the self-righteousness of the Orthodoxy, the Inquisition and the fanatic Avestites, are just as big a cause of the fading suns, as are the sins of the people. The prophet never converted anyone at the point of a flame gun. No, he created the faithful by showing them the truth of his ways and the light of the Pancreator. True faith can only come from free will. Never from fear! In my travels among the Vuldrok I have seen a lot of heresy and a lot of superstition. Unlike the often twisted view of the Kurgans, they seem to be very far from the insight of the Prophet's wisdom. However, I do not see evil. These people are not antinomists. They act in the way they believe is good. They are only misguided. They worship the angels of the Empyrean as they were gods themselves. Of course it is blasphemy, but is it truly evil? I would say that there may even be a chance that they have some wisdom lost to us. Something that may help us in obstacles to come. We must look out for this. Sooner or later we will need these people. When the eskaton is upon us all and the fight against darkness comes out in the open, we must stand together. We cannot let quarrels of theology be our downfall. Anyone who is not a servant of darkness must fight together. In the end, they too will see the light of the prophet's ways. You speak of our companions as they were sinners beyond redemption. Remember Joseph, that we are all sinners. From serf to patriarch, we all sin, sooner or later. The difference lies in how you admit this truth to yourself, and how willingly you step into the path of temptation. Remember that self-righteousness is a sin too. Let me quote a passage from the second republic Omega Gospels that I recovered from the "Juggernaut". "And Ven Lohji approached the new believers and said unto them: Why do you wish to slay this man? Has he committed any sin that you haven't? Let the one who is without sin, fire the first blaster." Oddly enough, this passage is not present in the canonic Omega Gospels that we read today. Still there is wisdom in these words, whether they were ever said or not (and they probably were). Surely there are those among our companions that are unbelievers, and surely there are those that are compulsive sinners. But we must never give up hope that they will redeem themselves, as we do when we have sinned. Most of them are as devoted to our cause as any of us. It is our mission to keep them on the right path, just as it is their mission to help us out in other ways. Be a guiding light to them, not a patronizing hipocrite. I am certain that they will all turn to the prophet in the end. It is in their destiny. I have no doubt whatsoever that the sacred mission we are on will succeed. We have been chosen to undertake this quest, and the light of the Pancreator will guide us. We will have to delve into places where our souls sometimes we be in jeopardy, but that is why we have been chosen. We will put ourselves on the line for the greater good. That is why we are priests, nobles and well... others. It is our job and we will deal with it. But there will be times when we will falter, just so that we can get back up with stronger faith than before. Before long, I think there will come a time when it is I who turn to you and ask for absolution. Let us stand together and help each other to keep our inner flame burning strong. Your sins are forgiven. Go now, and sin no more... In nomine Pancreatore et suam prophetae Zebulone. Your brother, Simon the Forgiving PS Why do you always speak so loud in our conversations? DS Brother Joseph feels that it´s his duty to follow his flock even though their course is set for heresy, meddling as they are with suspicious and occult lore which most probably should be left to it self. /Brother Joseph What does the Pancreator say about meddling with jumpgates? Brother Simon will definitely be there to find out..... /Brother Simon Dear Brother Joseph, It is with the greatest distress that I read your words. I have to say that I truly fear for your soul. There are many sins that we mortal servants of the Pancreator should avoid. I, for one, does not count fornication as one of them, but that is besides the point. Pride is ceratinly one of the worst. The absence of humility will cause your inner flame to diminish rapidly. And what could be worse than to proclaim yourself a demi-god? It is not just heresy. It is hubris beyond belief! As St Horace once said: "Do not count yourself as more than you are, or the gate of heaven will be closed for you!" (The acts of Horace 14:34). But unlike the self-righteous orthodoxy and their feeble inquisition, me and my Eskatonic synod does not beleive that any mortal soul is beyond salvation. You can still repent. I recommend that you focus on humble acts, and that you recite the Hymn of the Apostles three times each morning and three times each night. Eat with the poor, share their misery, give away your wealth, and perhaps the Pancreator will reignite the flame within. Always bear in mind that you are just a mortal man - nothing more, nothing less. Remember that I will always hear your confession when you feel the need... ...and I will pray for you. Your friend, Brother Simon Ven Lahjal I personally, since my recent elevation to the status of demi-god, stand way above the mundane dealings of mortal men. Need I say that this includes the stupid bonfire lovers of the inquisition as well? For you, oh preacher of a confused and illusional gospel, its another matter and I suggest you choose your words more carefully in the future. If not you will perish among the other disbelievers when my.... ehrrrm - the new faith spans the galaxy. (i.e. killed in nasty ways, most likely to include a serrated dagger, a nut-cracker and a live goat.) We'll see about that when you stand before them, dear brother. /Brother Simon A curse I put upon thee Derfel, soiler of trousers and practician of the dark arts. May the Pancreator, in his unquestionable benevolence, boil your brain in its own cerebral fluids and most generally smite thee until your demise in horrific ways. Ha! I, the armed fist of the Pancreator and the scourge of all evil, will once more go into the breach for the sake of justice and truth. Death (or at the least minor mutilation) to the pagans... /Joseph Sanguinus |
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